In this episode, Pastor Bill Rose and I chat about the stigmas that people have about the church, shame and vulnerability in the church, loving people when you don’t condone their actions, and God vs intuition.

We also dig into practical topics that we experience regularly, like the “messy middle” of holding others accountable and giving advice without attachment.

Towards the end, Bill has an incredible call to action for anyone listening, whether or not you’re religious.

To get in touch with Bill, call or text 919-417-6535, visit the Oasis Church website, or visit his blog.


  • “Eat the fish and throw out the bones.”
  • “..the question is will you be the one who takes ownership?”
  • “People aren’t problems to be solved. They’re opportunities to be loved.”
  • “Don’t build a cult. Build a church.”
  • “That’s just something we shouldn’t leave on the backburner.”

Resources mentioned: